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Thread: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

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    Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    I looked around for this article/interview, but didn't see it posted. There's interesting stuff from someone who played and excelled in Rex's system.

    http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/05...sacrifice-rex/



    On Reggie Ragland being the soul of Buffalo’s defense he once was: “And that’s what he’s looking for. He’s got great players on that side but he’s looking for a heartbeat. That’s what he’s looking for. I think Reggie has the potential to do that. He has the mentality and the heart to do that.


    On individual sacrifice in Ryan’s defense: “I tell people all the time that the easiest thing to get in football is stats. The easiest thing. But who are you going to screw to get them? Instead of setting the edge, are you going to rush the passer every time for the one sack you get in a game? If you get one sack a game, that’s 16 sacks. That’s a tremendous season, right? But how many times are you going to give up a big run because you’re getting up the field and they’re running right past you, right in-between? That’s why I tell people that Terrell Suggs was one of the best outside linebacker combination guys to ever do it. Because I watched guys on the Colts sprint up the field for years. Yeah, they go to the Pro Bowl and have a lot of gaudy numbers but they’re the 20th ranked defense in the league. Suggs was able to do that on the No. 1-ranked, the No. 2-ranked because he did it when he was supposed to. He got his sacks after he did his job. It wasn’t ‘get in a wide 9 and just get up the field.’ You’ve got to play the run on the way to the sack.”


    On players not buying in here: “So when the conversation started and some of the leaders like Mario speak out and they say ‘This isn’t working’ or ‘this works and this doesn’t work,’ who’s there to tell them ‘No, no. You’re wrong. Sit down?’ So when we were in Baltimore, we started 3-3 and then lost like three straight but you had me there, you had Marques Douglas there, you had guys saying ‘No, no, no. We do it this way. We’re all in this together. We’re not deviating from the plan because it works.’ He didn’t have that. But now he’s got some guys like Sammy Watkins who spoke up on his behalf. He had other players on the defense who spoke up on his behalf.
    “ Now if that happens this year, you’ll have that ‘Whoa, whoa, whoa.’ He has his own guys now. These are my guys now. And also he has the greatest safety to ever play the game sitting there coaching going ‘Whoa, whoa, whoa, nah, nah, nah. Not only did this system get me to the Hall of Fame’ but this system, I think the worst I ever finished — and this is with Ray Lewis hurt, Ed Reed hurt, Chris McAlister hurt — was seventh in my career. I think I finished first four times, second a bunch of times and third a bunch of times. This was in Baltimore and New York. So you can’t just say ‘Of course. You had Ray Lewis.’ No, no, no. A lot of this stuff happened with our Hall of Fame players getting pulled hamstrings out for the season.


    The proof is in the pudding. Does everyone on defense buy in and we see the Bills defense turn into a top 10 unit and lead them to the playoffs? Or has Rex's system been figured out and the defense is doomed regardless of whether or not the players buy in?

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    Re: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by elroy16 View Post
    I looked around for this article/interview, but didn't see it posted. There's interesting stuff from someone who played and excelled in Rex's system.

    http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/05...sacrifice-rex/







    The proof is in the pudding. Does everyone on defense buy in and we see the Bills defense turn into a top 10 unit and lead them to the playoffs? Or has Rex's system been figured out and the defense is doomed regardless of whether or not the players buy in?
    When was the last "top 10" Rex Ryan defense and how are we defining "top 10" for this purposes?

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    Re: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    " Top Ten List " ala Daaaaaaaaaaaavid Letterman!!!

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    Re: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by EDS View Post
    When was the last "top 10" Rex Ryan defense and how are we defining "top 10" for this purposes?
    Using the yards per play metric, Rex Ryan defenses have been in the top 10 every year since 2005 except the last 2 seasons. That includes the top defense twice, and in the top 5 six times.

    2015 - 24th
    2014 - 14th
    2013 - 9th
    2012 - 6th
    2011 - 4th
    2010 - 3rd
    2009 - 1st
    2008 - 3rd
    2007 - 8th
    2006 - 1st
    2005 - 2nd

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    Re: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    I remember the one game we lost where Mario didn't play his role and the HB caught an easy swing pass into the end zone while Mario was rushing to the QB. I remember how pissed Ryan was on the sideline. Perfect example of not buying in.
    Lou Saban: You can get it done, you can get it done. And what’s more, you’ve gotta get it done.

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    Re: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Turf View Post
    I remember the one game we lost where Mario didn't play his role and the HB caught an easy swing pass into the end zone while Mario was rushing to the QB. I remember how pissed Ryan was on the sideline. Perfect example of not buying in.
    That was the New England night game, right before half time. Rex did everything but call out Mario in his TV interview on the way to the locker room at half time.

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    Re: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Fo Sho View Post
    Using the yards per play metric, Rex Ryan defenses have been in the top 10 every year since 2005 except the last 2 seasons. That includes the top defense twice, and in the top 5 six times.

    2015 - 24th
    2014 - 14th
    2013 - 9th
    2012 - 6th
    2011 - 4th
    2010 - 3rd
    2009 - 1st
    2008 - 3rd
    2007 - 8th
    2006 - 1st
    2005 - 2nd
    So Bart Scott basically says statistics are meaningless, but to 'prove' Wrecks is a defensive genius we have to pull out...wait for it...a statistic.

    Wanna see Wrecks' win/loss record after leaving Baltimore?
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    Re: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by YardRat View Post
    So Bart Scott basically says statistics are meaningless, but to 'prove' Wrecks is a defensive genius we have to pull out...wait for it...a statistic.

    Wanna see Wrecks' win/loss record after leaving Baltimore?
    Bart Scott actually is talking about the difference between individual statistics and...wait for it...team statistics.

    All I did was answer a question, the topic was regarding defense not win total.

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    Re: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Fo Sho View Post
    Bart Scott actually is talking about the difference between individual statistics and...wait for it...team statistics.

    All I did was answer a question, the topic was regarding defense not win total.
    I wasn't mocking you for using a statistic, I was mocking the necessity to use a statistic to 'prove' Wrecks is a 'genius'.

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    Re: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    On Reggie Ragland being the soul of Buffalo’s defense he once was
    Um...what? Has the fabric of time ripped around OBD?
    Lehner's history. He just doesn't know it yet.

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    Re: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by gebobs View Post
    Um...what? Has the fabric of time ripped around OBD?
    Shhhh...it's an alternative universe scenario. Bart Scott played for Buffalo, and Wrecks was a good head coach.

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    Re: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Fo Sho View Post
    That was the New England night game, right before half time. Rex did everything but call out Mario in his TV interview on the way to the locker room at half time.
    Yep, right before half time. Thank you.

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    Re: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    Well, I think teams have figured out Ryan flavored defenses. I don't know though that Ryan can't improvise within the only scheme he wants to use.

    In 2015 you had KC (7), Buf (19) Cleve (27), NO (31). KC is Ryan theory not scheme. Jets moved up two places not using it, Buf dropped 15 using it.

    In 2014 you had NYJ (6), KC (7), Cleve (23), NO (31). Sort of tells me KC is on the right track using theory not scheme. Buf improved 6 places not using it.

    In 2013 you had NO (4), Buf (10), NYJ (11), KC (24), NO was installing it, KC was installing the theory, Pettine was installing it.

    Sort of have to remove KC for using theory not scheme, though it looks like the aggressive theory is sound. NO and Cleveland were just hapless so it comes down to the talent on Buf and NYJ, the Jets being mature in the scheme, Buf having better talent to not use it. But the Jets improved not using it in a brand new scheme.

    I think the better more experienced HC's and/or QB's know how to work it by now. Reminds me of Jauron coming in with the once shiny but declining Tampa-2 and being unable to not use it.

    On the other hand, moving up from 19th with some different talent, and vet experience in the system, shouldn't be so impossible, unless the teams in our division who have seen it or used it regularly for years know how to watch film of beating it.

    My conclusion. Airball. Maybe you get the swish, maybe it sails over the top of the backboard. I don't like Ryans. I'm still hoping for the swish. Nothing to do now but wait and see.

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    Re: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    If they can shave off 3 points per game, they'll be around 10th in the league. Considering the amount of TDs given up where someone looked lost or got yelled at for an obvious mistake, I don't think that's unreasonable.

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    Re: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by elroy16 View Post
    If they can shave off 3 points per game, they'll be around 10th in the league. Considering the amount of TDs given up where someone looked lost or got yelled at for an obvious mistake, I don't think that's unreasonable.
    I'm not optimistic, that's my nature by now, but they aren't hopeless and I don't think being around 10th in the league is unreasonable. Not sure it's likely, but can't see it out of the equation either.

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    Re: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    I'm not optimistic, that's my nature by now, but they aren't hopeless and I don't think being around 10th in the league is unreasonable. Not sure it's likely, but can't see it out of the equation either.

    I could see either way as well. I think with the percieved level of coaching and player talent, 10th best should be the floor. If they have another down year, I'll have a really hard time defending rex.

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    Re: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    Until Ryan learns how to handle the no huddle which even I can see is a problem for him, I'm not sold on his prowess.

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    Re: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Turf View Post
    Until Ryan learns how to handle the no huddle which even I can see is a problem for him, I'm not sold on his prowess.
    I'm not so sure I wouldn't rather have Roman, Lee & Lal being able to run one.

    I kind of think the no huddle, or fast timing patterns (or fakes to one), are the wreck of the Ryan defense, like seams and TE's were the wreck of the tampa-2. Get the defense trying to defend that and start running 5 yards a pop. When it gets old, no huddle and timing, then repeat running. The defense gets substitution crazy and the offense has mismatches.

    But if the Roman/Lee/Lal offense can work series faster, we can do the same thing with a rushing offense and some competent receivers out there, just in reverse.

    Edit : Thinking about it, we have the worst hurry up offense I've ever seen, I think one other team is terrible but not near so bad, might be Miami.
    Last edited by Mace; 05-09-2016 at 08:03 PM.

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    Re: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    The only stat on defense that matters is points allowed.

    Here is Rexy's defensive ratings since becoming a head coach.

    2015 -15th
    2014 - 24th
    2013 - 19th
    2012 - 20th
    2011 - 20th
    2010 - 6th
    2009 - 1st

    Still optimistic? Still think it only has to do with his players buying in? Last year was Rex's best defensive effort since 2010. There's almost nothing there to expect him to shave 3 points a game off. Meanwhile the Jets went from that 24th under Ryan to 9th under Bowles while the Bills went from 4th to 15th.

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    Re: Bart Scott on Rex's system, individual sacrifice, etc

    what kind of ratings are these, Pink?


    DVOA from footballoutsiders is the rating that I like the most. Because it adjusts for many things, strength of opponent among others. This says:

    Baltimore Ravens (2005–2008) Defensive coordinator
    2005 6th
    2006 1st
    2007 5th
    2008 2nd

    New York Jets (2009–2014) Head coach
    2009 1st
    2010 5th
    2011 2nd
    2012 9th
    2013 12th
    2014 21st


    Buffalo Bills (2015–present) Head coach
    2015 24th



    Ok, that last three years, especially the last two are worrisome. Other than that he was very good. Especially getting the Jets to first in his first year is impressive. And the last year with Mario not giving a ****, maybe you can put an asterisk there.
    But actually thats is the problem. Why is Mario playing if he does not give a ****. With the Patriots Bellicheck would have made him clean the whole shower room with a tooth brush. And with Rex, Mario simply keeps playing.
    Rex not holding the players accountable is a huge problem. He is a better D coord than a head coach. Hopefully I am wrong. Maybe he will improve, especially with having now the players that fit his system. But he did not improve for many years, so why now?
    Probably he will fail and the we can draft new players for the system of the next head coach next years. The Buffalo way...
    Last edited by Topas; 05-10-2016 at 01:42 AM.

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