Grantland says Sammy Watkins is pretty good

[don137]

Re: Grantland says Sammy Watkins is pretty good

I have season tickets to the Panthers and life long Bills fan. While Benjamin is a great talent Watkins is something special. KB gets the dropsies. He is big and an awesome target for a first down or in t he red zone but he isn't much for running after the catch. He pretty much gets tackled every time right after getting catching the ball. All things considered I think Watkins career will far exceed KB.

[trapezeus]

Re: Grantland says Sammy Watkins is pretty good

Oh, so when we cited that watkins struggled to put up numbers with a run first offense and was still close to Benjamin, that was just blatantly wrong? And now that he has middling QB play and on pace to 1000 yards and clearly better than when not getting the ball, we'll dismiss that?

The price has been paid. We discussed it while you were telling us the bills would move out of buffalo

Just a time for a "I'm sorry sometimes im wrong" is all that you need to get back on track. If you can't do that, go back to whatever board you came from. Watkins is clearly a reliable WR we haven't had in years. And a poster who goes to the Panther games says he sees the dropsies with Benjamin. But I guess we'll dismiss that too like how all geniuses do.

We would all like to thank you for being the only person to have issues with spiller. You were a genius to see that. No one else here did. I guess the system just autofilled the "spiller isn't used correctly and that was a luxury pick" threads

[Fletch]

Re: Grantland says Sammy Watkins is pretty good

Watkins is a beast...but the extra 1st was a steep price to pay. It's really as simple as that. If the trade was a 1st and a 2nd/4th next year, I'd be all in. Giving up a 1st for a non QB is not something I would recommend. At the very least, Watkins looks like an elite talent that can have a huge impact with a slightly below average QB. At the end of the day, with the game on the line, the play was to Watkins, Orton didn't look anywhere else, and Watkins easily got open. Comparing Watkins to Spiller is silly IMO because Watkins has shown as much upside this year as Spiller has in his career...and I wouldn't mind keeping Spiller around at a decent price and with a OC who knows how to utilize him.

That's a very fair assessment. Unlike Spiller he's showing something immediately in his rookie season, which was to be expected. We expected it with Spiller too but he just didn't deliver.

Hammer's notion that a WR that's presently ranked 29th in ypg, in an 11-way tie for 15th in TDs, and 58th in ypc is "special" is way too premature and quite frankly, ridiculous.

Whether he becomes special or simply a good WR, as I think will be the case based on what we now know, remains to be seen. I expect Watkins to end up putting up numbers comparable to Moulds or maybe even Harvin depending upon how he develops.

Right now there's way too much hoopla over his performance in one game though, and it was Minnesota in Buffalo, not exactly the AFCCG here. When he starts putting up games like that every other week and not tanking in between then we can start a discussion about potential future greatness or his maybe being "special." But just because a bunch of draftniks claim that he's special means nothing at this point. They've been saying that Spiller's special for years. If that's what "special" is then we need to redefine the term.

Right now the trend seems to be one particular receiver stepping up with the rest not doing much and the TEs and RBs doing the rest of the receiving work. Hogan a middling game though. Williams has been all but invisible. In the last game, Pats, it was Woods, with Hogan again posting good games. Watkins did little. Detroit was Watkins, Houston was Williams, SD no WRs had a good game, Miami was Watkins, and Chicago was Woods.

My point there is that this week it may very well be Woods again with none of the others doing much of anything. Or maybe Hogan.

The team's gotta figure out how to get two or three WRs involved at the same time. I'm curious if things would be different if Stevie were here instead of Williams whose heading for a 300-yard season.

[Fletch]

Re: Grantland says Sammy Watkins is pretty good

Back to topic.

Watkins is better than pretty good. We now know he can be the main reason we win some close football games.

He is pretty good. But special? Way too early to be crowning him that.

Also, Minnesota? I'm not disagreeing necessarily, but he'll need to do that against some better teams before it starts to take on more meaning, wouldn't you say?

Keep in mind that all that everyone talked about was how anytime he touched the ball he was a threat. A 12.4 yards-per-catch really doesn't support that. Neither does being buried in the yards-after-catch stats.

[Fletch]

Re: Grantland says Sammy Watkins is pretty good

Why are some even surprised he is good ? He was dynamite in college. All he needed was a half way decent qb who could get him the ball. He has all the skills. Big, fast, good hands, breaks tackles, strong, runs good routes, will go over the middle, fearless, and he is young and will get even better as long as he has a qb with him.

He will be a top-5 wr in the NFL.

Look at his collegiate game stats in detail and the types of teams that he put up his best games against k.

What you'll note is that he didn't put up very many good games against top defensive teams and generally had a very low ypr in them too. I'm not sure that supports what you just said. Just throwing that out there. You may want to temper your optimism to avoid potential disappointment is all I'm saying.

A few of his rookie peers, including Benjamin who leads the league for rookies right now and is on pace for well over 1,000 yards as a rookie, and who was on FSU, had much better games against better Ds in college. He also had much better bigger game experience.

I'd love to have him instead and our two picks back.

[trapezeus]

Re: Grantland says Sammy Watkins is pretty good

regardless of the price, we actually have a WR where teams have to account for him and even when they do he can catch the ball. He also has been playing hurt as evidenced by his routine of going to the ground or out of bounds to avoid a hit.

He isn't another long line of under talented guys who happens to be our #1. He would be any team's number 1 where they didn't have an established starter.

would you have felt comfortable with Stevie being targeted for that TD with 1 second left? He was our #1. he's currently a #3 on a good team.

and where you are looking for a game changing WR, he is still a rookie. even your precious benjamin gets this benefit. what you expect from a rookie WR is to be decent. Eric moulds first two years had 275-300 yards in receptions each yearas he learned the system. He had 2 TDs. But i guess his career of having almost 10000 yards was meaningless because he didn't meet fletch's stat's only view on the world.

watkins catches anything remotely close to him and about 50% of the things no one else would even touch.

Find me another wr that reliable. if he stays at his pace, we know we have a #1 wr and can go address other things. if we had benjamin, we would still be wondering if we can make him better by having another #1a/b WR to pair him with.

[Fletch]

Re: Grantland says Sammy Watkins is pretty good

regardless of the price, we actually have a WR where teams have to account for him and even when they do he can catch the ball. He also has been playing hurt as evidenced by his routine of going to the ground or out of bounds to avoid a hit.

He isn't another long line of under talented guys who happens to be our #1. He would be any team's number 1 where they didn't have an established starter.

would you have felt comfortable with Stevie being targeted for that TD with 1 second left? He was our #1. he's currently a #3 on a good team.

and where you are looking for a game changing WR, he is still a rookie. even your precious benjamin gets this benefit. what you expect from a rookie WR is to be decent. Eric moulds first two years had 275-300 yards in receptions each yearas he learned the system. He had 2 TDs. But i guess his career of having almost 10000 yards was meaningless because he didn't meet fletch's stat's only view on the world.

watkins catches anything remotely close to him and about 50% of the things no one else would even touch.

Find me another wr that reliable. if he stays at his pace, we know we have a #1 wr and can go address other things. if we had benjamin, we would still be wondering if we can make him better by having another #1a/b WR to pair him with.

Great post trap, thanks!

I disagree on Benjamin. I saw him play at FSU and have gone out of my way to watch him some at Carolina. He makes the catches too.

I also still say that this notion that Watkins is the kind of WR that has to be accounted for, above and beyond the norm, is premature. We'll see as things progress. He's had two great games, one good game, and hasn't done much in four others. It's not like he's become a regular at doing this and I'd like to see it against some teams and Ds besides Chicago and Minnesota as well.

Benjamin is 6'5" compared to Watkins 6'1" and 30 lbs. lighter. Benjamin is more that mold of those WRs that you say need to be accounted for and his collegiate accolades were nothing to laugh at and he posted better games against their tougher competition. It has nothing to do with "my precious Benjamin." If Benjamin were on our team you'd all be switching stances.

But again, would it have been better to have had our 1st and 4th's next season and Benjamin, or Watkins?

Time will tell but right now Benjamin's the better NFL WR both visually, in terms of consistency, as well as statistically. He's a huge RZ target, the kind that everyone said Williams was, but Benjamin's actually playing that way.

[casdhf]

Re: Grantland says Sammy Watkins is pretty good

If we end up with a pick in the 20s, as currently projected, I would say the trade would be worth it. Watkins arguably took over the final drive against the Vikings and was a real difference maker vs the Dolphins. There are two wins that may not have happened with Stevie as our 1.

[casdhf]

Re: Grantland says Sammy Watkins is pretty good

Also, out of the 10 players on that list, two of them played ball at UB, and one is a current Bill.

Go Buffalo

[better days]

Re: Grantland says Sammy Watkins is pretty good

Look at his collegiate game stats in detail and the types of teams that he put up his best games against k.

What you'll note is that he didn't put up very many good games against top defensive teams and generally had a very low ypr in them too. I'm not sure that supports what you just said. Just throwing that out there. You may want to temper your optimism to avoid potential disappointment is all I'm saying.

A few of his rookie peers, including Benjamin who leads the league for rookies right now and is on pace for well over 1,000 yards as a rookie, and who was on FSU, had much better games against better Ds in college. He also had much better bigger game experience.

I'd love to have him instead and our two picks back.

When you discuss receivers you never take the QB into consideration.

Of course a receiver that plays with a GOOD QB is going to put up better numbers than a receiver playing with a mediocre QB.

Watkins College QB was mediocre. And EJ & Kyle are mediocre as well.

If Watkins had Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers as his QB, he would have set records already.

[Fletch]

Re: Grantland says Sammy Watkins is pretty good

When you discuss receivers you never take the QB into consideration.

Another lie.

[better days]

Re: Grantland says Sammy Watkins is pretty good

Another lie.

Not a lie. Show me a post where you said the QB played an important role in a receivers numbers & I will apologize for being wrong.

[billser]

Re: Grantland says Sammy Watkins is pretty good

I can't believe you still compare Benjamin to Watkins. Watkins was our day one number 1. Watkins got revis treatment and it was obvious he was going to get the last ball against Carolina. That's special. It's actually unreal that a 21 yr has been able to carry that load, go compare him to other rookie starters, find me one who was thrown in as no. 1 with that much pressure from day 1 and produced.

How you can admit that Benjamin has caught balls from Derek Anderson and continue to compare them is beyond me. I've watched all his games, most of his catches are garbage time. You're comparing a project who's caught garbage Tds to a no. 1 21 yr old who gets gameplanned against who has single handedly already won games for us. If anything BEnjamin hasn't transitioned well, he can't get an inch of separation.

I know, or am hoping, you realize all this and are simply saying things in desperation to back up prior comments. Give it up.

[casdhf]

Re: Grantland says Sammy Watkins is pretty good

Talking about College stats is ******ed. Lets go back to High School huh? Danny Wuerffle should be in the hall of fame.

[k-oneputt]

Re: Grantland says Sammy Watkins is pretty good

I really don't know where you are coming from Fletch. The kid dominated in college and while always getting special notice from opposing defense's.

The last game I watched him in was when he almost single handidly beat the crap out of Ohio St. in their bowl.