Statement Game

[JohnnyGold]

Re: Statement Game

Check back in January.

for what?

if they miss the playoffs, youll be happy because you were right and the bills arent good.

if they make the playoffs and lose in the wild card round, people will be mad because we're keeping marrone next year, and the fans will think that with marrone at coach and orton at qb, we can't do anything more than luck into a wild card.

if they lose in the divisional round, people will be upset because we're a solid team that lucked into a wildcard round win, but doesnt have a high enough draft pick to get that missing piece to propel us to "truly elite," and we'll be stuck as a middling team forever.

if they lose in the afc championship game, people will be upset because we have too many veterans along the defensive line, and orton is too old to build around, so our ceiling will always be just below denver or new england, until luck and dalton take over the conference, and therefor the bills will never make the super bowl.

if we lose in the super bowl, people will be upset because we made it to the big dance based purely on luck of the draw, caught new england in a down year, and rode homefield advantage in the first round to an upset over the patriots, and chanced into 2 more lucky victories. they will say that the team as it is currently constructed can never win a super bowl, and the loss will set us back like the 90-93 losses did, by making us think there is more talent on the team than there actually is, and we will be perpetually stuck as runner ups.

if we win the super bowl, people will complain that we have no succession plan in place for orton, and that we dont have enough money to resign hughes, spiller, and all the free agents that will come due in the summer of 16. people will complain that the bills sacrificed long term success for a one-off championship just like the florida marlins, and now we're going to have to suffer for another 14 years, so enjoy it for 20 minutes (while it lasts) because the future of the bills is dark.

honestly--it's come to this.

when the bills can be at (almost) the halfway point of the year, a game back from a first round bye, and people are saying things like
"slim playoff hopes"
and
"check back in january"

what's the point of discussing them on here.

I'm enjoying this season IMMENSELY. yet every time i come online, i find myself trying to fugure out whats wrong with my head for thinking its fun to watch the bills in 2014.

at 4-3, with the division and a bye in play, i've realized: nothing is wrong with me.

i'm watching a game.
the bills are playing well.
it's fun.
you guys are idiots.

it's as simple as that.

[feldspar]

Re: Statement Game

What I am saying is because of his limitations, Kyle makes the OL look worse than EJ did.

IF that's true, maybe it's because Orton actually goes through his reads and looks to throw the ball in the intermediate-to-long range a lot more than EJ ever did. EJ rarely saw the whole field and was too anxious to check down or lock onto his first read. EJ's limitations are a hell of a lot worse than Orton's. Orton is basically a pocket passer, but he's nowhere near the statue Bledsoe was.

Orton plays the position more like it's meant to be played as compared to EJ.

Sure, Orton holds onto the ball too long sometimes, but I really don't think he's done that more than EJ. I saw plays where he didn't have a chance from the get-go. Either way, the Bills are better off with Orton with the same line. Replacing Richardson with Urbik will help. Orton having more experience in this offense should help.

[better days]

Re: Statement Game

IF that's true, maybe it's because Orton actually goes through his reads and looks to throw the ball in the intermediate-to-long range a lot more than EJ ever did. EJ rarely saw the whole field and was too anxious to check down or lock onto his first read. EJ's limitations are a hell of a lot worse than Orton's. Orton is basically a pocket passer, but he's nowhere near the statue Bledsoe was.

Orton plays the position more like it's meant to be played as compared to EJ.

Sure, Orton holds onto the ball too long sometimes, but I really don't think he's done that more than EJ. I saw plays where he didn't have a chance from the get-go. Either way, the Bills are better off with Orton with the same line. Replacing Richardson with Urbik will help. Orton having more experience in this offense should help.

If you can, go back & look at the games EJ played in this year.

EJ avoided sacks due to his mobility. Kyle gets sacked because he has NO mobility.

I agree, the Bills are better off with Orton than EJ at this point, but if Orton just had a little mobility, he would be a much better QB than he is.

And Orton plays the position like it was meant to be played 30 years ago...not in todays NFL.

[feldspar]

Re: Statement Game

If you can, go back & look at the games EJ played in this year.

EJ avoided sacks due to his mobility. Kyle gets sacked because he has NO mobility.

I agree, the Bills are better off with Orton than EJ at this point, but if Orton just had a little mobility, he would be a much better QB than he is.

And Orton plays the position like it was meant to be played 30 years ago...not in todays NFL.

30 years ago? What? C'mon now. Probably the best couple of quarterbacks in the game today don't have more mobility than Orton.

Orton doesn't have NO mobility. And I think you mistake EJ's "mobility" for what it really is sometimes, which is giving up too soon on a play...sensing pressure when it really isn't there yet...not fully understanding the situation for whatever reason. Then he tries to get the hell out of there too soon. Also, I think that they were trying to turn EJ into a pure pocket passer (or thereabouts) when that really isn't the way he's totally geared...not really the way he approaches the game naturally. "Watch your knees."

I think Orton is more able to SENSE pressure and naturally step up in the pocket, drop back, or roll out. That's what you want most often, even in today's game. Or even just get rid of the ball quicker by design.

Smarts and accuracy are WAY more important than mobility in the long run. Balls help.

[YardRat]

Re: Statement Game

If you can, go back & look at the games EJ played in this year.

EJ avoided sacks due to his mobility. Kyle gets sacked because he has NO mobility.

I agree, the Bills are better off with Orton than EJ at this point, but if Orton just had a little mobility, he would be a much better QB than he is.

And Orton plays the position like it was meant to be played 30 years ago...not in todays NFL.

Peyton Manning and Tom Brady respectfully disagree.

[pmoon6]

Re: Statement Game

Throw all the stats and BS out the window for this one.

Regardless of the perceived strength of the respective teams, the Jets games are usually tough, hard fought affairs...at least if history is any indicator.

[better days]

Re: Statement Game

30 years ago? What? C'mon now. Probably the best couple of quarterbacks in the game today don't have more mobility than Orton.

Orton doesn't have NO mobility. And I think you mistake EJ's "mobility" for what it really is sometimes, which is giving up too soon on a play...sensing pressure when it really isn't there yet...not fully understanding the situation for whatever reason. Then he tries to get the hell out of there too soon. Also, I think that they were trying to turn EJ into a pure pocket passer (or thereabouts) when that really isn't the way he's totally geared...not really the way he approaches the game naturally. "Watch your knees."

I think Orton is more able to SENSE pressure and naturally step up in the pocket, drop back, or roll out. That's what you want most often, even in today's game. Or even just get rid of the ball quicker by design.

Smarts and accuracy are WAY more important than mobility in the long run. Balls help.

So I suppose Manning & Brady give up on a play too soon as well.

Neither of them gets sacked like Orton does.

And don't tell me it is because they have a better OL in front of them, I would bet Orton would be sacked just as often behind the Pats* OL as he is behind the Bills.

This reminds me of Rob Johnson & Doug Flutie. Rob made the OL look terrible with all the sacks he took.

When Flutie came in, he moved around & got rid of the ball fast & the OL looked much better.

[Fletch]

Re: Statement Game

IF that's true, maybe it's because Orton actually goes through his reads and looks to throw the ball in the intermediate-to-long range a lot more than EJ ever did. EJ rarely saw the whole field and was too anxious to check down or lock onto his first read. EJ's limitations are a hell of a lot worse than Orton's. Orton is basically a pocket passer, but he's nowhere near the statue Bledsoe was.

Orton plays the position more like it's meant to be played as compared to EJ.

Sure, Orton holds onto the ball too long sometimes, but I really don't think he's done that more than EJ. I saw plays where he didn't have a chance from the get-go. Either way, the Bills are better off with Orton with the same line. Replacing Richardson with Urbik will help. Orton having more experience in this offense should help.

I'm not sure what to think about Orton, and I'm not taking a side in this discussion between you and better days, but while it's rare I will agree with bd on the notion that Orton is taking far too many sacks.

I don't know if he'll end up setting a team record for sacks taken, but right now he's taking more sacks per-game than any other QB in Bills history.

If sacks are that relevant when we look at our D, then they have to also be equally relevant when we talk about sustaining them.

I will add this point to the discussion between you two, our offense hasn't been any more potent in terms of scoring than it was with Manuel in there, which is mindboggling. The only conclusion that I've come to regarding that is that at least a part of that has to do with drives ended due to sacks taken.

Orton's no immobile, but he appears to be below average in terms of mobility.

Otherwise, I think what's happened here is that the offense has gotten googly-eyed over having a better passer in there and have put much more of their planning into passing the ball and taken the rushing out of the game-planning, or at least they're calling it that way on game days.

It is somewhat perplexing because this team should be scoring more with Orton, but Red Zone production and scoring are no better. Third down conversions and total # of 1st downs are not significantly higher if they're better at all.

[feldspar]

Re: Statement Game

So I suppose Manning & Brady give up on a play too soon as well.

Neither of them gets sacked like Orton does.

And don't tell me it is because they have a better OL in front of them, I would bet Orton would be sacked just as often behind the Pats* OL as he is behind the Bills.

This reminds me of Rob Johnson & Doug Flutie. Rob made the OL look terrible with all the sacks he took.

When Flutie came in, he moved around & got rid of the ball fast & the OL looked much better.

Man, if you look at Orton's sack numbers throughout his career, they are not that high.

If you really want to compare EJ Manuel with Orton, Manuel has actually been sacked at a greater rate than Orton has throughout his career.

And Orton hasn't really been playing behind the same line as EJ.

If you want to know why the line seems worse with Orton in there, look no further than this guy...or at least start here:



Cyril Richardson has started every game Orton has, and he's been absolutely putrid. He's only started one game with EJ at QB...you know, the game which was the last straw leading EJ to the bench. J.J. Watt basically won the Bills/Texans game for Houston, IMO. You know something is wrong when fans are screaming for Urbik to start...

[better days]

Re: Statement Game

Man, if you look at Orton's sack numbers throughout his career, they are not that high.

If you really want to compare EJ Manuel with Orton, Manuel has actually been sacked at a greater rate than Orton has throughout his career.

And Orton hasn't really been playing behind the same line as EJ.

If you want to know why the line seems worse with Orton in there, look no further than this guy...or at least start here:



Cyril Richardson has started every game Orton has, and he's been absolutely putrid. He's only started one game with EJ at QB...you know, the game which was the last straw leading EJ to the bench. J.J. Watt basically won the Bills/Texans game for Houston, IMO. You know something is wrong when fans are screaming for Urbik to start...

OK, Orbik is playing Sunday, I hope you are right & Orton doesn't get sacked once.

[feldspar]

Re: Statement Game

OK, Orbik is playing Sunday, I hope you are right & Orton doesn't get sacked once.

I'm pretty sure he'll get sacked by that Rex Ryan defense. At least I have confidence that Orton doesn't rattle too easily. I really think that the battle up front on both sides of the ball will have a lot to do with how the game plays out, even more so than usual.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Re: Statement Game

We make a statement by beating New England, Denver, or Green Bay. We don't need a statement, but for all the reasons you mentioned we need a W and we need to go into the bye with no further injuries. I kinda like a team that wins ugly and knows how to win gritty --see my love of the hometown baseball club, Kansas City Royals -- because that is the type of team that kicks ass when it gets all the tools in place. So just get me a gritty win. 5-3, and then come back beat KC, Cleveland, Miami, the Jets again, Oakland and any one of the games against Green Bay, New England, and Denver.

We are a 3 point dog going on the road to play a 1 win team. The metrics speak to how we might be in trouble this week. A loss here puts us at 4-4 going into the bye, thinking about an opportunity squandered, and squarely on the outside looking in for the playoff picture.

A win though, a decisive win at that, could really be the difference in setting us up for a second half run. This team needs another dominant win, a la the Miami game, although without the Kelly and Pegula news/home opener wind at our back and on the road.

This isn't a must win game. We're still a ways from that kind of talk. But it is an opportunity. A chance to kick this Jets team squarely in the nuts and build the kind of confidence we're going to need to keep the pace with the rest of the conference.

I hope the boys are beyond amped this Sunday. I hope they're throwing haymakers all day and showing no mercy. I want to see us win by 20. It may be just 1 of 16, but to me it presents a huge chance to make the kind of statement we need to make.

[Edward Robinson]

Re: Statement Game

Well, everyone forgets about injuries just a little down the road.

The only thing there in black & white is the won lost record.

NOBODY remembers all the injured players on the teams the Pats* have beaten over the years, just the fact the Pats* won those games.



And this is why fletch has no point when he brings up the injuries to players on teams the Bills have beaten.

EVERY team has injuries.

Amen. That is what I've been saying to Fletch all along. This is the NFL. The teams with the best qb's and the most depth are the teams that usually make the playoffs

[pmoon6]

Re: Statement Game

"Legs Of Stone" reminds me of the "Statue" tag Bledsoe got from dumbass Bills' Fans.

Bledsoe was the best QB we had since Kelly and alot better than what we had after. The guy threw for 45,000 career yards and is a possibly HOF material.

Yet, lots of Bills' Fans panned and hated him.

That speaks volumes.

[gebobs]

Re: Statement Game

Holy crap...13 sacks in three games is a LOT...a lot more than I thought. But 300 YPG is a lot too. Far more than EJ could possibly muster with his dinks and dunks.

This game scares me. The Bills will try to establish the running game without their two best backs. Failing that, the Jets will pin their ears back and come at Orton.