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I'm thinking that if there truly was a special WR in this past draft, Beckum is the one. He missed 4 games and is presently the Giants' leading receiver and may very well outperform all the other rookies on 4 fewer games.
you remain an unreadable poster.
remember the one you wanted was benjamin at 9...you never mentioned beckum when he wasn't playing. now that you have some fodder for anyone but watkins you keep posting.
Eli Manning to David Tyree in the SuperBowl is still the greatest catch I've ever seen. Pretty sure it was 3rd down, last drive of the SB, can't have more pressure than that, then Manning scrambles out of a sure sack, and hits Tyree who catches the ball with the help of his helmet.
My faith doesn’t make me perfect, it makes me forgiven.
remember the one you wanted was benjamin at 9...you never mentioned beckum when he wasn't playing. now that you have some fodder for anyone but watkins you keep posting.
Look at his username.
FLETCH
hes admitting in his username that he has multiple personalities.
You post 24/7 when one of the other rookie WR have a big game. You vanish when Watkins has a big game or the others have a bad game then cry when people say your'e anti Bills.
You love to play the poor Fletch card. Nobody will debate me in a civil conversation Act like a douche and that's what happens!
That's simply untrue. I've said absolutely nothing that should cause anyone in this thread to say what you just said.
I've posted equally after Watkins has had a big game. I tend to avoid the Watkins threads because people on your side are doing exactly what you said, laying out their agendas and slamming everyone and anyone going into those threads with "see I told ya so's."
If you really want to be objective, try taking a look at the entire season so far. In the interests of discussing the topic, the best that you can do is to make excuses as to why Watkins hasn't even come close to proving himself the best WR in this class, much less even among the top 3.
Again, facts are facts.
I have nothing against you and I said nothing to incite you or otherwise rile you. Yet you violate the terms of service by attacking me and cluttering up the forum with stuff like this.
Watkins is what he is, not because I've decreed it, but because he has either done or conversely not done what you and others claimed he could and would do. Sorry, again, those are just the facts. I present them for discussion and argument, that's all.
Seems as if you're angry at me because I am right and have been all along to this point. Frankly I don't care about being right or wrong, only those claiming that others do seem to care about being right. I am content to simply discuss these things in a civil manner whereas you seem to be the one having difficulty doing so. There haven't been any problems until now with your posts and yet you blame it on me.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
remember the one you wanted was benjamin at 9...you never mentioned beckum when he wasn't playing. now that you have some fodder for anyone but watkins you keep posting.
You know what, then don't read them. Why do you keep reading them?
If you're not reading them, then why do you comment on what you haven't read?
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
remember the one you wanted was benjamin at 9...you never mentioned beckum when he wasn't playing. now that you have some fodder for anyone but watkins you keep posting.
Once again, entirely untrue.
I'm not sure why you have difficulty understanding the tremendously simple concept from which I argue this point.
I have always maintained the position that we'd have been better off with one of the next best WRs while keeping our 1st and 4th's for this upcoming draft. I did say that if I were going to trade up like that I'd have grabbed Evans instead, but my choice would have been to keep our picks and grab one of the next best. I pointed out Benjamin too, another poster added Beckum into the argument before he started posting ridiculous numbers a few weeks ago, and I agreed that he'd have been fine too.
It really isn't a matter of which one, ironically all three and at least one other are all doing better than Watkins.
What's interesting about this is that you and Novacane, and who knows what coastal thinks, seem to really believe that Watkins is better despite his ridiculous inconsistency and lack of stats matching the others otherwise. If the roles were reversed and I were arguing that way, you'd be throwing up stuff about how I was ignoring all kinds of stats and reality to make my point.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
because you respond 14 times in a row in any given post.
and nice dodge of being called out that you wanted benjamin ahead of beckum. Joe Busc this morning was talking about how the bills were high on beckum at 9 if the trade up didn't happen.
The truth of the matter is it's a deep class and watkins and now beckum have made some big plays that have caught people's attention. a few weeks ago, watkins was all you heard the press talk about. Now after last night's performance you'll hear beckum talked about. it will be about consistency in the long run.
And tell me, do you think a guy who has manning or orton/manuel will put up better numbers in the long run?
I'm not sure why you have difficulty understanding the tremendously simple concept from which I argue this point.
I have always maintained the position that we'd have been better off with one of the next best WRs while keeping our 1st and 4th's for this upcoming draft. I did say that if I were going to trade up like that I'd have grabbed Evans instead, but my choice would have been to keep our picks and grab one of the next best. I pointed out Benjamin too, another poster added Beckum into the argument before he started posting ridiculous numbers a few weeks ago, and I agreed that he'd have been fine too.
It really isn't a matter of which one, ironically all three and at least one other are all doing better than Watkins.
What's interesting about this is that you and Novacane, and who knows what coastal thinks, seem to really believe that Watkins is better despite his ridiculous inconsistency and lack of stats matching the others otherwise. If the roles were reversed and I were arguing that way, you'd be throwing up stuff about how I was ignoring all kinds of stats and reality to make my point.
when watkins inevitably has another big game, we'll watch you stay away from the boards. and that's how we know you are a troll, fletch/very wide right.
because you respond 14 times in a row in any given post.
Maybe part of that is because posters like you perpetually lay out things that I never said and positions that I've never held. Naturally you see no problems with those posts by you and others.
I respond to certain posts made by others. Unfortunately this forum, unlike other softwares, does not have the ability to state which poster it is that you are referring to. Either way, I almost always include the post that I'm responding to. There are two active threads right now that I've made posts in over the last several days or week for the most part. None of the others.
So explain why you post attacking me after these posts, that you claim you don't read, and feel the need to put them in? Aren't you simply capable of ignoring them? Put me on ignore for petes sakes. You won't have to read any of em. I'd be ecstatic if you did. Why don't you? You claim you don't want to read my posts but then feel compelled to chase me around commenting on most of them but not on the posts, on me.
Do you view this as being mentally stable? I view it as being somewhat unhinged. Unless I respond to one of your posts, don't respond otherwise. When I did today you don't address the facts and still take issue with me. This isn't normal or healthy mental behavior.
and nice dodge of being called out that you wanted benjamin ahead of beckum. Joe Busc this morning was talking about how the bills were high on beckum at 9 if the trade up didn't happen.
I'm well on record as having stated the following and you wont' find anything to the contrary posted here.
1. I wouldn't have traded up to get Watkins.
2. Given that trade up I'd have taken Evans.
3. With our original pick and assuming that both would have been gone at 9th, if we had to have a WR at 9th (highly questionable in my mind to begin with) I'd have gone for Benjamin next.
4. Another poster a week or two ago said he'd have taken Beckum, to which I pointed out that he'd have been fine too if it had meant keeping our picks but that the difference between him and Evans and Benjamin was size. Evans/Benjamin are both in that Calvin Johnson/AJ Green size mold whereas Beckum is more in the DeSean Jackson size mold from a physical perspective.
Either way, defending the notion that Watkins was A, the best use of two 1st-rounders, and B, even close to being the best of this WR draft class, is futile at this point.
At this point I would take Evans, Benjamin, Beckum, or Matthews in exchange for Watkins and our 1st and 4th's back this season.
The truth of the matter is it's a deep class and watkins and now beckum have made some big plays that have caught people's attention. a few weeks ago, watkins was all you heard the press talk about. Now after last night's performance you'll hear beckum talked about. it will be about consistency in the long run.
The truth of the matter is that it was a deep draft class, as I've pointed out from day one, and that numerous WRs have outshone Watkins. Sorry, that's just the way it is.
Another truth is that as I posted above, Watkins has easily been the least consistent WR of the highest profile WR draft prospects.
Of 9 rookie WRs with at least 500 receiving yards and a minimum of 30 catches,
Watkins ranks tied for 1st in starts.
Watkins ranks 4th in yards-per-game.
Watkins ranks 6th in catch %.
Watkins ranks 5th in yards-per-reception.
Watkins ranks tied for 4th for TDs with two other receivers that have 3 and 6 starts to Watkins' 10, one of which missed 4 games entirely.
That doesn't even come close to qualifying him as even in the running for best WR rookie. The only thing he comes close to leading is starts. The rest of his numbers don't match those.
And tell me, do you think a guy who has manning or orton/manuel will put up better numbers in the long run?
Presumably you mean Eli, but apparently you are unfamiliar with the heat that Eli's taken so far this season. Were you even aware that his and Orton's stats on average were almost identical? It doesn't seem so.
Manning has averaged 1.9 TDs/game and just under 260 passing yards. Orton has averaged just over 260 ypg and 1.7 TDs/game. Orton's completion % is higher as is his rating.
Your point was?
And let's discuss the QBs of the others while we're at it.
Evans had had Glennon and McCown, neither of which has outperformed Orton statistically.
Benjamin has Newton who's been injured the whole season and has struggled worse than Manning and is also taking a rash.
Foles' numbers are worse than Orton's too and Foles and Sanchez (LOL) combined are worse than Manning's.
Do we even need to mention Robinson with Bortles down in Jax, who trails Watkins only marginally with what could very well be the worst QB play of any team in the league.
This too is something that I've often repeated, several times in response to direct posts by you, yet you still post as if I never showed you this info, and yet you blame me for reposting it.
I think that if you're going to use QBs as an excuse, then you should at least go run some comps on their play vice the play of our QBs this season in doing so. Don't you think that would be a better way to approach an argument?
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
Ya but Watkins to me looks like Dez Bryant. Just because Bekham is looking good it doesn't mean he's better.
You might be right, and time will tell. However the point that I'm trying to make isn't who is the better receiver today or who will be the best receiver tomorrow. It's what combination of assets would make the Bills a better team.
I see three scenarios that the Bills could be in right now.
1 - Current situation...with Sammy Watkins.
2 - No trade up, still trading away Stevie...we'd have Evans/Beckham/Benjamin/Matthews as well as an additional 4th rounder and 1st next year.
3 - No trade up, keep Stevie...
Ya but Watkins to me looks like Dez Bryant. Just because Bekham is looking good it doesn't mean he's better.
You might be right, and time will tell. However the point that I'm trying to make isn't who is the better receiver today or who will be the best receiver tomorrow. It's what combination of assets would make the Bills a better team.
I see three scenarios that the Bills could be in right now.
1 - Current situation...with Sammy Watkins.
2 - No trade up, still trading away Stevie...we'd have Evans/Beckham/Benjamin/Matthews as well as an additional 4th rounder and 1st next year.
3 - No trade up, keep Stevie...we'd have Evans/Beckham/Benjamin/Matthews as well as an additional 4th rounder and 1st next year, and Stevie.
when watkins inevitably has another big game, we'll watch you stay away from the boards. and that's how we know you are a troll, fletch/very wide right.
So let me see if I understand this, you actually want me to come and put up averages and how Watkins' relates, and lags, other rookie WRs after he has a big game?
I've regularly posted those tables every 3 or 4 weeks. I think this is the third time this season that I've done so.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
That's funny. At times people have accused me of being you too.
I have one moniker. I'll happily take credit for being another dozen or two dozen posters just to liven things up and keep charades going.
Did you want to discuss football, or just me? I'm not interested in shagging questions or insults regarding myself.
I thought that forums like these were supposed to be about football, how come you guys clutter it up with junk about me and other posters?
trapezeus slams me for things that he also takes issue with other posters on. So do numerous other posters. Can't just be me although I can see why I am high up the list. Gotta be tough acknowledging that someone people hate so much is right so often. Not that I care about being right, I simply enjoy discussing, but you guys all care about being right and have tremendous difficulty in dealing with it when you're not, particularly when I am. Such is life though.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
Act like a douche and that's what happens!
Originally Posted by pmoon6 
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