Being a pessimist is taking the easy way out.

[lordofgun]

It's easy to say everything sucks, and be right, than to believe. It's easy to say we won't make the playoffs and be right since 20 teams don't make the playoffs every year. It's easy to say we will never win a Super Bowl because 31 teams don't every year. It's easy to say Marv will be a bad GM because he's never done it before, and it's his first year with the Bills in rebuilding mode.

Pessimists take the easy way out, and expect credit for it when they're right. Sorry, not gonna happen. That's like predicting USC football will make a bowl game and proclaiming yourself a genius when it happens.

I'd rather hope on the long shot that things will go right than to be fairly certain that everything sucks, and let that get in the way of the fun of being a Bills fan.

The odds are on your side, pessimists. But I refuse to become one of you. I'd rather stop watching football.

:log:

[YardRat]

If this isn't the stupidest "us vs. them" pissing match I've ever seen on a message board, I don't know what is.

[lordofgun]

If this isn't the stupidest "us vs. them" pissing match I've ever seen on a message board, I don't know what is.
You don't remember Flutie vs. Johnson?

[YardRat]

Flutie/Johnson was a classic QB controversy that at least had meritable arguments on both sides.

Fan vs. fan with the only basis consisting of what type of fan you are is just plain dumb-ass.

[The_Philster]

Great thread, Log :bf1:

[lordofgun]

I disagree. It affects the whole fandome and definitely this message board. It sucks to log on and always read about how much we're gonna suck with pessimist arguing with pessimist about who should get the credit and who said we'd suck first.

[The_Philster]

To have fans at each other's throats like the Flutie-Johnson stupidity made us laughingstocks around the league..and now, coming on here to see so many claiming we're gonna suck, we're gonna suck, we're gonna suck...it's nauseating. Fan is short for fanatic..<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>.</TD><TD>A (http://www.webster-dictionary.net/definition/A) person (http://www.webster-dictionary.net/definition/person) affected (http://www.webster-dictionary.net/definition/affected) by (http://www.webster-dictionary.net/definition/by) excessive (http://www.webster-dictionary.net/definition/excessive) enthusiasm (http://www.webster-dictionary.net/definition/enthusiasm)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> http://www.webster-dictionary.net/definition/Fanatic
Isn't enthusiasm generally regarded to be a positive emotion? :idunno:

[YardRat]

It sucks to log on and always read about how much we're gonna suck

I've never gotten that impression...at least not to the point where it was dominating the boards. Most threads seem pretty balanced to me.

[shelby]

Thank you log! Well said!

[YardRat]

To have fans at each other's throats like the Flutie-Johnson stupidity made us laughingstocks around the league

:roflmao: QB controversies always split fans into camps...it's a quality that is inherent to the nature of the situation. It happens to any fan base of any team that is experiencing one. Hell, even in the glory years there were fans that thought Reich should be elevated to starter over Kelly...it's the nature of the position.

I can honestly say I've never seen an argument amongst fans that deteriorated to the point where they were split into groups determining what kind of fan they were.

If any pre-game show ever did a spot on a discussion like this...THEN you'd see laughing-stock.

[The_Philster]

I truly think it was nastier with the Flutie-Johnson thing than with most. :2cents:

[YardRat]

I truly think it was nastier with the Flutie-Johnson thing than with most. :2cents:

I don't disagree with that...I never quantified my position by the level of nastiness. It's not about how nasty the discussions become...it's about the subject matter that the discussions are based on.

QB vs QB...Flutie vs Johnson...Losman vs Holcomb...understandable.

Fan vs fan...'homer' vs 'realist'...dumb-ass.

[LtBillsFan66]

It's easy to say everything sucks, and be right, than to believe. It's easy to say we won't make the playoffs and be right since 20 teams don't make the playoffs every year. It's easy to say we will never win a Super Bowl because 31 teams don't every year. It's easy to say Marv will be a bad GM because he's never done it before, and it's his first year with the Bills in rebuilding mode.

Pessimists take the easy way out, and expect credit for it when they're right. Sorry, not gonna happen. That's like predicting USC football will make a bowl game and proclaiming yourself a genius when it happens.

I'd rather hope on the long shot that things will go right than to be fairly certain that everything sucks, and let that get in the way of the fun of being a Bills fan.

The odds are on your side, pessimists. But I refuse to become one of you. I'd rather stop watching football.

:log:
:bf1:

[OpIv37]

It's easy to say everything sucks, and be right, than to believe. It's easy to say we won't make the playoffs and be right since 20 teams don't make the playoffs every year. It's easy to say we will never win a Super Bowl because 31 teams don't every year. It's easy to say Marv will be a bad GM because he's never done it before, and it's his first year with the Bills in rebuilding mode.

Pessimists take the easy way out, and expect credit for it when they're right. Sorry, not gonna happen. That's like predicting USC football will make a bowl game and proclaiming yourself a genius when it happens.

I'd rather hope on the long shot that things will go right than to be fairly certain that everything sucks, and let that get in the way of the fun of being a Bills fan.

The odds are on your side, pessimists. But I refuse to become one of you. I'd rather stop watching football.

:log:

you're dead wrong. First, I've never claimed to be a genius- in fact I've openly admitted several times that I'm predicting the most likely outcome (hence the term "realist"). I'm not trying to make any bold predictions or prove that I'm smarter than someone else- just saying what I honestly think is going to happen based on past results and knowledge of football (not superior knowledge- just average fan knowledge).

Second, if us pessimists are right, we still lose because it means the Bills suck. When I predicted that the Bills would struggle last year, I didn't come back and post any "I told you so" threads because being right is little consolation when the Bills suck.

And as hard as this may be for you to believe, some of us can admit that everything sucks about this team and still have fun. In fact, a win is all that much sweeter when you're expecting a loss. An optimist can never be pleasantly surprised- he can only been disappointed.

[THATHURMANATOR]

It's easy to say everything sucks, and be right, than to believe. It's easy to say we won't make the playoffs and be right since 20 teams don't make the playoffs every year. It's easy to say we will never win a Super Bowl because 31 teams don't every year. It's easy to say Marv will be a bad GM because he's never done it before, and it's his first year with the Bills in rebuilding mode.

Pessimists take the easy way out, and expect credit for it when they're right. Sorry, not gonna happen. That's like predicting USC football will make a bowl game and proclaiming yourself a genius when it happens.

I'd rather hope on the long shot that things will go right than to be fairly certain that everything sucks, and let that get in the way of the fun of being a Bills fan.

The odds are on your side, pessimists. But I refuse to become one of you. I'd rather stop watching football.

:log:
No they are realists log....

[LtBillsFan66]

I like to see "realists'" arms get caught in wood chippers.

[shelby]

Wow, that's pretty hostile.

[The_Philster]

some of us can admit that everything sucks about this team and still have fun. In fact, a win is all that much sweeter when you're expecting a loss. An optimist can never be pleasantly surprised- he can only been disappointed.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->If everything sucked about this team, we'd never score a point or stop an opponent from scoring...let alone win any games....you're exaggerating...again. As far as optimists, most of us you're debating with are more realistic than that. We don't have high expectations for the most part but hearing all the exaggerations about how bad the team is (when we haven't even been in training camp yet, let alone played a game to get any real clue what this team is gonna be like) really makes the season something harder to look forward to. :ill:
Simply put, the exaggerated negativity is a buzzkill for those of us who look forward to football season each year. A few more weeks of this garbage, and the only thing I'll be able to look forward to is my photography and publicity work

[lordofgun]

you're dead wrong. First, I've never claimed to be a genius- in fact I've openly admitted several times that I'm predicting the most likely outcome (hence the term "realist"). I'm not trying to make any bold predictions or prove that I'm smarter than someone else- just saying what I honestly think is going to happen based on past results and knowledge of football (not superior knowledge- just average fan knowledge).

Second, if us pessimists are right, we still lose because it means the Bills suck. When I predicted that the Bills would struggle last year, I didn't come back and post any "I told you so" threads because being right is little consolation when the Bills suck.

And as hard as this may be for you to believe, some of us can admit that everything sucks about this team and still have fun. In fact, a win is all that much sweeter when you're expecting a loss. An optimist can never be pleasantly surprised- he can only been disappointed.
It's not always about you, Op.

[shelby]

Of course, there is always the option of not reading these threads....

:D

[The_Philster]

It's not always about you, Op.
as hard as it is to believe, people DO complain more than Op :faint:

[The_Philster]

Of course, there is always the option of not reading these threads....

:D
then you'd wind up putting the entire Bills forum on ignore :laughter: It's in practically every thread in there anymore

[shelby]

i'm just saying.....if these threads are sucking the joy out of your life...don't read them.

:D

[The_Philster]

i'm just saying.....if these threads are sucking the joy out of your life...don't read them.

:D
talking football is supposed to be enjoyable...that's why most of us are here, if I'm not mistaken

[YardRat]

Of course, there is always the option of not reading these threads....

:D

Or they could be put in the Smack Zone forum, where all the rest of the fan vs. fan threads belong.

[The_Philster]

Or they could be put in the Smack Zone forum, where all the rest of the fan vs. fan threads belong.
do we have enough mods to move all the threads that denigrate into that kind of stuff, though? :laughter:

[OpIv37]

It's not always about you, Op.

well if you had someone specific in mind, perhaps the smart thing to do would have been mentioning that person/those people by name.

[The_Philster]

well if you had someone specific in mind, perhaps the smart thing to do would have been mentioning that person/those people by name.
maybe he didn't wanna call anyone out specifically :idunno:


You're hardly the only pessimist here...nor are you the biggest pessimist, IMO

[TigerJ]

Funny thing is a couple days ago Op started a thread which I pretty much agreed with, and I told him so.

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=103491

Then he started this one

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=103704


to which I assume you are reacting, LOG.

While my assessment of the upcoming season is close to Op's, I generally consider myself to be optimistic about the Bills. I always try to find reason for hope. This season, with the odds pretty well stacked against the Bills making the playoffs, I'm not really worrying about the playoffs at all. If they happen, it will be a very pleasant surprise. I'm mainly looking at a change in direction. Yes, there is much that has been up in the air this offseason. We don't know who the starting QB will be, we don't know if the offensive and defensive lines will be enough better than last year to be happy about, we don't know whether Jauron will prove to be a solid coach after a less than stellar stint in Chicago. We don't know if we have the personnel to run the Tampa 2 defense, and we don't know if the team can learn the new systems quickly enough to be a factor this season, and we don't know if Marv Levy saw something no one else saw when he signed Peerless Price, Aaron Gibson, Andre Davis, etc., guys that the rest of the league seems to have given up on, or he's just a senile old guy who's in over his head.

I'm looking at the same uncertainty as Op, and while I'm not willing to make some of the predictions a few members of our "Homer" group are making, I'm basically saying, OK, let's give Marv the benefit of the doubt. Maybe Dick Jauron has a chance to be a good coach. Maybe some of these "value signings" will pan out and give us productive players without costing an arm and a leg. No matter what the Bills record is this year, until proven otherwise I choose to think that the team has put itself on a path that will lead to success down the road, and while they may not make the playoffs this season, just maybe they'll beat the over/under that Las Vegas has set, and maybe even have a winning season.

[G. Host]

Pessimists take the easy way out, and expect credit for it when they're right. Sorry, not gonna happen. That's like predicting USC football will make a bowl game and proclaiming yourself a genius when it happens.


I agree is you equate 'easy" with "coward".
Jerry Sullivan is the current leader of the :cynic: group and will be the first to proclaim his articles were reason why Bills got back on track.

[SABURZFAN]

I like to see "realists'" arms get caught in wood chippers.


what about their necks?you wouldn't have to hear it anymore. :snicker:

[Jan Reimers]

I think the real fun this time of year is imagining how JP is going to really come into his own at QB, how Whitner is going to tear it up at SS, how McCargo is going to be so much better than Bunkley and Ngata, how Willis is going to pound for 2000 yards and 25 touchdowns, how Parrish is going to light it up, how Everett is going to become an elite TE, how Spikes is going to win Comeback Player of the year, etc., etc.

I'd hate to be a pessimist and give up all my dreams for a great season, even if I know - based on 46 years of experience - that many of them probably won't be coming true again.

Without hope, you might as well be dead.

[Night Train]

Funny thing is a couple days ago Op started a thread which I pretty much agreed with, and I told him so.

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=103491

Then he started this one

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=103704


to which I assume you are reacting, LOG.

While my assessment of the upcoming season is close to Op's, I generally consider myself to be optimistic about the Bills. I always try to find reason for hope. This season, with the odds pretty well stacked against the Bills making the playoffs, I'm not really worrying about the playoffs at all. If they happen, it will be a very pleasant surprise. I'm mainly looking at a change in direction. Yes, there is much that has been up in the air this offseason. We don't know who the starting QB will be, we don't know if the offensive and defensive lines will be enough better than last year to be happy about, we don't know whether Jauron will prove to be a solid coach after a less than stellar stint in Chicago. We don't know if we have the personnel to run the Tampa 2 defense, and we don't know if the team can learn the new systems quickly enough to be a factor this season, and we don't know if Marv Levy saw something no one else saw when he signed Peerless Price, Aaron Gibson, Andre Davis, etc., guys that the rest of the league seems to have given up on, or he's just a senile old guy who's in over his head.

I'm looking at the same uncertainty as Op, and while I'm not willing to make some of the predictions a few members of our "Homer" group are making, I'm basically saying, OK, let's give Marv the benefit of the doubt. Maybe Dick Jauron has a chance to be a good coach. Maybe some of these "value signings" will pan out and give us productive players without costing an arm and a leg. No matter what the Bills record is this year, until proven otherwise I choose to think that the team has put itself on a path that will lead to success down the road, and while they may not make the playoffs this season, just maybe they'll beat the over/under that Las Vegas has set, and maybe even have a winning season.

:bf1: :posrep:

[Mr. Miyagi]

It's easy to say everything sucks, and be right, than to believe. It's easy to say we won't make the playoffs and be right since 20 teams don't make the playoffs every year. It's easy to say we will never win a Super Bowl because 31 teams don't every year. It's easy to say Marv will be a bad GM because he's never done it before, and it's his first year with the Bills in rebuilding mode.

Pessimists take the easy way out, and expect credit for it when they're right. Sorry, not gonna happen. That's like predicting USC football will make a bowl game and proclaiming yourself a genius when it happens.

I'd rather hope on the long shot that things will go right than to be fairly certain that everything sucks, and let that get in the way of the fun of being a Bills fan.

The odds are on your side, pessimists. But I refuse to become one of you. I'd rather stop watching football.

:log:
That's some profound stuff, you wise one. :miyagi:

[finsrclowns]

I like to see "realists'" arms get caught in wood chippers.


That won't scare them. I mean, what are the odds?:chuckle:

[BillsFever21]

It isn't being a pessimist when you look at the team for what it is at the moment and your opinion is that we're gonna have a losing season.

When this team improves, myself and others will change our opinion and expect a winning season.

You can still have fun being a fan without trying to make yourself believe the team is better then it really is.

This has to be the dumbest thing I've ever seen on a message board. There are way too many thin skinned people around here.

[Mr. Cynical]

It isn't being a pessimist when you look at the team for what it is at the moment and your opinion is that we're gonna have a losing season.

When this team improves, myself and others will change our opinion and expect a winning season.

You can still have fun being a fan without trying to make yourself believe the team is better then it really is.

This has to be the dumbest thing I've ever seen on a message board. There are way too many thin skinned people around here.

So true.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I don't understand why it has to be an either/or proposition.

Like TigerJ and OP, etc., I can see that there are a lot of questions about this year's Bills team that are going to need to be answered.

But, like Jan, I want to imagine what it will be like to have all of the answers be positive and enjoy that thought.

Still, like TigerJ and OP, my years of watching, playing and being around the game tell me that it isn't very likely that all of those answers will be positive and that it is likely that there are going to be some difficulties along the way.

But, like LOG and Jan, etc., I want the Bills to do well and I want to continue to hope that they will, in spite of the fact that I know that this may not happen and, indeed, may not be likely.

I don't understand why I can't look at the Bills both ways: as the team that I want and hope that they will be and as the team that my experience and knowledge tell me that they are likely to be. I want to do both.

Why should I let someone--anyone--tell me that I can't do both? Why should I allow myself to be labelled or categorized and put into one camp or the other? The way that I see it, the only camp that I want to be in and the only label that I want put on me is that of "Bills Fan". And, call me whatever you want, that's the only label I will accept!!!

[YardRat]

Best post of the thread, LBF. Period.

[madness]

Wow, that's pretty hostile.

Wow, that's pretty realistic of you. :couch:

I was watching NFL Live this morning and it's funny how we are supposedly only better then a few teams in the league when there are 10 new head coaches in the league and seven of them never had been a head coach.



Seven of the 10 new head coaches this season were never NFL head coaches before and history shows tha 37 percent will grab nine or more wins. That translates to two or three of the brand new coaches are going to be considered successful when January rolls around.