Start Orton Now

[JoeMama]

I agree, Redeye...it's only been three game in. (Three that count anyways)

Trouble is, when he's bad, he's real bad...like Todd Collins bad.

What bothers me is, he does not seem to have much football acumen:

He cannot feel where the pressure is coming from.
He slides when he should dive, and dives when he should slide.
His passes are way too high, even the completions.
In his post game pressers, he usually states that he played "really well". (Huh???)

Do these things come with experience? Yes, usually...but after 14 years of suck, (as well as a clown car parade of starting QBs since Kelly) fans of this team are
not patient. Nor should they be.

A lot is resting on his shoulders, and he needs to play better.

He needs to hit that wide open receiver over the middle on the post pattern.

That being said...benching him now with a winning record is just plain silly.

That's 14 years of frustration talking....not sound football decision making.

It's unfortunate that the last 14 years hang around this guy's neck, but the reality of the situation, is that it does.

Hey to be fair, Todd Collins was awesome... for one season in Washington... after riding the pine for 15 straight years.

EJ wishes he could be that good.

[Woodman]

It looks like EJ is gonna get these guys killed.

I would have to take a look at Orton myself.

Will the Bills, probably not.

[gr8slayer]

ahhh bull****. They need to give up on him if they want to win more than 6 games. He should have been sitting and learning from the beginning. I said if he plays right away the Bills will ruin him and it's turning out just that way. He needed to sit for a year, at least. Cousins sat for two years and he is tearing it up in Washington. Sitting and waiting until he is actually ready is the best thing for him and the team. They can still rectify their mistake but I fear they are too stubborn to admit it.

I honestly don't know that he can be fixed at this point. He's a guy that doesn't have a lot of confidence to begin with, having to start from day one has completely ruined what was there. He's a guy that's playing with zero confidence in his abilities right now, and it's too bad, because the guy has as high a ceiling (physically) as anyone out there.

[gr8slayer]

They had no vet to mentor him, they had no QB coach, they had a project QB, and they tried letting Boy Hackett mentor him without having an NFL clue to begin with, installing a fast paced quick read west coast offense Manuel was totally ill suited for. So now we have a bad QB coach, Boy Hackett and an overmatched incapable project QB with a last minute Orton looking for snaps to help him.

It's not going to work, whether or not it might have if different. Doesn't mean the season is done, but sort of means they dorked up developing their "franchise" QB unless you think this is a great way to develop a project QB, and I don't think anyone here is that lost.

That's the whole problem, they DID have a veteran for him to sit behind and learn from, but he got hurt before week one, and it just went down hill from there. Kevin Kolb going down was the absolute worst case scenario for Manuel and his career. The Bills didn't have a plan in place should Kolb go down, and what we're seeing today is the result.

[gr8slayer]

You play the guy who gives you the best chance to win now. Last year we had no alternative to Manuel, but we've invested 10 million in an actual professional experienced NFL quarterback. He needs to see the field until EJ is the better option. But I expect Marrone to go all in on EJ and he and his staff will be riding the Manuel train right out of town by 2015 at the latest.

How can you be sure that it's Marrone's call?

[trapezeus]

i think our QB position is what it is. orton isn't going to make it better. he's going to be a.500 qb as well. he retired for a month without a team sniffing at him. he's not an answer. i get that it's fun to look at the backup on a bad starter day.

but this season isn't a superbowl season. it's a young team getting better season. i think they can challenge for the division since the division looks fairly weak. especially if chicago wins tonight. to do that, they don't need an allstar qb, they need an efficient one.

I think we all kind of have a feel for EJ, but he needs to play about 20 games to really know how he is projecting. and if he's in the wheelhouse of average, you kind of have to see him play another 4-6 games and see if he's still sometimes ok and sometimes bad or he's steadily improving. if he's improving, the bills should give him a third season to define himself. if he is still good at times and bad at times, they need to seriously look at another drafted qb and give EJ a very short rope next season. like 4 games to define himself and let a rookie learn. then swap out if needed.

i am not hopeful on EJ, but i don't think he's shown us anything to bench him for and he hasn't shown us anything to annoint him the new kelly. if he stays healthy, then by the Miami game, we'll see his W/L, his completion % and his average yards per game. and if they aren't trending upward, chances are he's not our long term solution.

and i said at the beginning of the season, i think EJ is going to have very pedesrian stats that make it hard to know ifyou should stick with him or move from him. he seems to be projecting that way thus far.

[Buffalogic]

The front office has to know they are toast if they don't get off the sinking ship. They have a lot more incentive to bring the backup in than most other teams. And Orton isn't a dinosaur. He will be 32 next month. If he plays and takes us to the playoffs we really don't need an immediate replacement for him.

-Let Orton start now. If we make the playoffs this year, let him start in 2015.
-Draft best QB prospect in the 2nd round in the upcoming draft.
-Allow him to sit behind Orton for as long as Orton has us winning.
-Keep Orton as the backup in 2016 and beyond whhen the new guy is ready to start.

[Buffalogic]

i think our QB position is what it is. orton isn't going to make it better. he's going to be a.500 qb as well. he retired for a month without a team sniffing at him. he's not an answer. i get that it's fun to look at the backup on a bad starter day.

but this season isn't a superbowl season. it's a young team getting better season. i think they can challenge for the division since the division looks fairly weak. especially if chicago wins tonight. to do that, they don't need an allstar qb, they need an efficient one.

I think we all kind of have a feel for EJ, but he needs to play about 20 games to really know how he is projecting. and if he's in the wheelhouse of average, you kind of have to see him play another 4-6 games and see if he's still sometimes ok and sometimes bad or he's steadily improving. if he's improving, the bills should give him a third season to define himself. if he is still good at times and bad at times, they need to seriously look at another drafted qb and give EJ a very short rope next season. like 4 games to define himself and let a rookie learn. then swap out if needed.

i am not hopeful on EJ, but i don't think he's shown us anything to bench him for and he hasn't shown us anything to annoint him the new kelly. if he stays healthy, then by the Miami game, we'll see his W/L, his completion % and his average yards per game. and if they aren't trending upward, chances are he's not our long term solution.

and i said at the beginning of the season, i think EJ is going to have very pedesrian stats that make it hard to know ifyou should stick with him or move from him. he seems to be projecting that way thus far.

Anybody not named EJ Manuel is an improvement. What you said is false. Orton would be better. Arizona's backup would be better. You underestimate how bad EJ is and you underestimate how good Orton has played at times in the past.

We just need someone who can hit an open receiver. Orton can, EJ can't. EJ isn't going to learn accuracy. It's that simple.

[swiper]

This just kills me:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-sundays-star/

I wanted the Bills to draft both Cousins and Foles in the worst way. Now we have to come here everyday and listen to the bevy of hostile EJ lovers that reside here trying to tell us that we "have to wait more." Idiots one and all.

[trapezeus]

Anybody not named EJ Manuel is an improvement. What you said is false. Orton would be better. Arizona's backup would be better. You underestimate how bad EJ is and you underestimate how good Orton has played at times in the past.

We just need someone who can hit an open receiver. Orton can, EJ can't. EJ isn't going to learn accuracy. It's that simple.

tell me which one is EJ and which one is Orton

1. 58.5% completion rating, average 6.63 yards a pass. 1.05x TD to INT/Fumble ratio, 79.9 QB rating
2. 59.8% completion rating, average 6.58 yards a pass. 1 to 1 TD to turnover ratio, 80.6 QB rating.

Which one is hands down the better QB? and which one has almost 10 years of experience and 75 games played vs a player who has played 13?

my defense of ej isn't that he's going to eb a stud, but this team has a lot of working pieces for it. if it wants to win it all, you have to find out if the guy you drafted is worth it and give another guy who has a chance to be a long-term answer. if we hedge this season with orton, we will waste another season on a guy who might not be the guy.

take your lumps now and hope that it comes together. and if it doesn't, we move forward with QB being a priority in the draft.

[Buffalogic]

I don't care about your stat lines. They don't mean anything. Orton has performed at a pro bowl, EJ never will.

Orton has done something in this league and EJ hasn't, no amount of manipulated stats is going to change that.

[Historian]

Everybody is bringing good points to the table here....so I have one question:

Do you think they're doing the same thing at One Bills Drive, (gaming out possible scenarios, etc) or is it business as usual?

[Fletch]

i think our QB position is what it is. orton isn't going to make it better. he's going to be a.500 qb as well.

Who says that EJ's a .500 QB? So far he's 6-7. In six more games he'll be well below .500.

[Buffalogic]

Everybody is bringing good points to the table here....so I have one question:

Do you think they're doing the same thing at One Bills Drive, (gaming out possible scenarios, etc) or is it business as usual?

Yes. I think the bakeup plan was put in place during the Orton/Marrone/Whaley blow up. Now they are probably going back and forth on whether to initiate that plan or they are installing a deadline day for that to commence if EJ continues on this road (which we know as fans he will).

[trapezeus]

I don't care about your stat lines. They don't mean anything. Orton has performed at a pro bowl, EJ never will.

Orton has done something in this league and EJ hasn't, no amount of manipulated stats is going to change that.

are you kidding. over a 10 year career, the average stats are pretty telling. orton has had some good games. but he isn't what we are going to build around. and if we need a new qb, i don't want orton, i want a real qb.

i also will have no respect for this coaching staff if they think that a 2-1 record says abandon ship. this is their project to fix and get right. if they can't do it, or not evaluate it right at the get go, they shouldnt be around.

[RedEyE]

Everybody is bringing good points to the table here....so I have one question:

Do you think they're doing the same thing at One Bills Drive, (gaming out possible scenarios, etc) or is it business as usual?

Man, I'd like to think so. Truth of the matter is I have think the Bills back-up plan involves this coming off season. Orton would be nothing more than a band aid. The best thing that can happen for the Bills nation is for EJ to wake uo Sunday morning and it all just suddenly clicks in place. He has the athleticism and the talent, he just needs to get that **** fixed inside that pig skin firmly planted on his shoulders.

[feldspar]

I honestly think that Orton gives us a better chance to win right now. This reflects more on EJ than Orton.

I don't think Manuel is franchise QB material, but I guess they want to try to develop him into that.

Either way, all we can do is watch and hope for the best each week. I do think the Bills will beat the Texans, although I would not literally bet on that.

It's a tough situation because if we win no matter how EJ plays, we're liable to stick with him. Although, if he's not the answer, it's best to have all the reasons why it's time to cut the cord as soon as possible. Obviously, this is EJ's make or break year. He'd better have a thick skin when he's in there, though.

[Buffalogic]

are you kidding. over a 10 year career, the average stats are pretty telling. orton has had some good games. but he isn't what we are going to build around. and if we need a new qb, i don't want orton, i want a real qb.

i also will have no respect for this coaching staff if they think that a 2-1 record says abandon ship. this is their project to fix and get right. if they can't do it, or not evaluate it right at the get go, they shouldnt be around.

Why do we have to build around him? He's our best option now and if we can win with him then why not? We can't build around a young guy that clearly sucks either. May as well win given the chance.

Nothing this coaching staff has done to this point garners any type of respect anyways. The team could be better than it is and I don't respect anything that gets no results and is too stubborn to play their best players.

[Buffalogic]

So what's up guys we ready for Orton or what?

[Famous Amos]

Bench EJ- send a message that interception was Tuel-esque