Was Singletary's pass-catching so poor we needed a 2nd rd pick to address it?

[cookie G]

He's the best number two back you can have, but won't change anything besides being putting a running back on the field who can run some sometimes and catch some sometimes, and might make a play sometimes while giving it his best always. He's a something sometimes guy who isn't a threat on a theoretical contender.

Shrugs.

He rarely gets caught in the backfield and far less than most other backs. More often than not, he will make the defender who breaks into the backfield miss more often than not. In fact, if he is one on one with a LB or DB, he'll make the defender miss more often than not. Im actually amazed sometimes how often he can make an NFL defender miss.

When being tackled, he's almost always moving forward, getting an extra yard or 2. He is the type that will turn a 3 yard gain into a 5-7 yard gain and a 5 yard gain into a first down.

When the Bills made an actual commitment to running the ball late last season, he was averaging about 80 yards per game.

But this is a pass first offense, as it should be, so I wouldn't expect them to make a true commitment to running the ball.

They are throwing him the ball slightly more this year, and he has receptions on 9 of 11 targets and he's averaging about 9 ypr.

What you aren't going to see are many 40-50 yard runs. He doesn't have the breakaway speed for that.

On the other hand, you don't see as many 2 and and 13, or 3 and 10 after he gets the ball as you would with many other RBs, including many who are considered "feature backs". How important that is with a pass first team with a Josh Allen...is a matter of interpretation.

Actually, I find him very consistent in what he does.

Will Cook be any different? idk. But your opportunities will be limited when you fumble on your first carry, or drop an easy swing pass. This is especially true as a rookie.

[sukie]

Josh Allen disagrees with your observation....



Hmmmmmm.....one of the best (if not THE best) players in the NFL, and the unquestioned leader of the Bills, is quoted, by name.

Compared to an unnamed guy, who does not come anywhere close to working in the NFL.....who’s observation is more valuable and credible????

You mean 50 unnamed NFL execs, scouts and coaches?

would you ever think Allen would even throw a turnstile like Bobby Hart under the bus?

Singles and Moss won’t get massive payday in Erie County

[YardRat]

Josh Allen disagrees with your observation....



Hmmmmmm.....one of the best (if not THE best) players in the NFL, and the unquestioned leader of the Bills, is quoted, by name.

Compared to an unnamed guy, who does not come anywhere close to working in the NFL.....who’s observation is more valuable and credible????

Oh, the irony of this comment is soooo thick a concrete wall would be jealous.

[Mace]

Shrugs.

He rarely gets caught in the backfield and far less than most other backs. More often than not, he will make the defender who breaks into the backfield miss more often than not. In fact, if he is one on one with a LB or DB, he'll make the defender miss more often than not. Im actually amazed sometimes how often he can make an NFL defender miss.

When being tackled, he's almost always moving forward, getting an extra yard or 2. He is the type that will turn a 3 yard gain into a 5-7 yard gain and a 5 yard gain into a first down.

When the Bills made an actual commitment to running the ball late last season, he was averaging about 80 yards per game.

But this is a pass first offense, as it should be, so I wouldn't expect them to make a true commitment to running the ball.

They are throwing him the ball slightly more this year, and he has receptions on 9 of 11 targets and he's averaging about 9 ypr.

What you aren't going to see are many 40-50 yard runs. He doesn't have the breakaway speed for that.

On the other hand, you don't see as many 2 and and 13, or 3 and 10 after he gets the ball as you would with many other RBs, including many who are considered "feature backs". How important that is with a pass first team with a Josh Allen...is a matter of interpretation.

Actually, I find him very consistent in what he does.

Will Cook be any different? idk. But your opportunities will be limited when you fumble on your first carry, or drop an easy swing pass. This is especially true as a rookie.

Same thing Cookie, a shrug. I respect your opinion and won't argue it.

I just think it spells rb2.

I'll never question his effort, he works out of piles he runs into on pure effort and motor, but he's still running into those piles. He has no acceleration, no 2nd gear, no lateral ability, and while it might be sufficient, it's just not optimal for an NFL rb1 and you likely know this. I've never said Singletary is bad, he's just not that good to be rb1 on a contender, imho.

Well, it's not a rushing offense. Agree. But it's not impossible to find a guy that can peel off down the side around people or take a hole and blow through it, or reliably gain a yard on third and 1. It affects how teams defense us. Coming out of a pile once in a while for an extra 5 just doesn't make anyone worry, and they basically duplicated it with Moss, who is supposed to be a contact rusher while Singletary does it better, smaller, anyway.

I feel the RB room needs an upgrade so a Singletary can fill a critical role, but I don't feel Singletary can be the main role.

I'll agree to disagree, old son.

[notacon]

You mean 50 unnamed NFL execs, scouts and coaches?

would you ever think Allen would even throw a turnstile like Bobby Hart under the bus?

Singles and Moss won’t get massive payday in Erie County

The “irony” is right here, Yardie.

If a player, GM, HC etc...comes out in public and says something about an active player.....it is deemed not credible because “would you ever think Allen (or anyone else) would even throw (fill in the blank) under the bus”?

But when NFL GM’s, coaches, scouts and players say something that is a blind quote, so they can talk freely....it is deemed not credible because they are “unnamed”.


I sense a lame pattern here. Sports journalists are not credible because it’s only their opinion....NFL players, coaches etc....when they are quoted, in public are not credible because they would never throw anyone under the bus....and when NFL players, GM’s, coaches, etc....are blind quoted (so they could talk freely) are not credible because they are “unnamed"

Jesus. This a ‘tails I win, head’s you lose’ nonsense.


Sukie says something dumb that Josh Allen directly refutes, in every way.....and he simply dismisses it with the lame idea that "would you ever think Allen would even throw a turnstile like Bobby Hart under the bus?”

Not throwing someone under the bus and saying what Allen did about Singletary are on two different planets.

You just can't admit that your flippant comment is wrong, how typical.

[sukie]

The “irony” is right here, Yardie.

If a player, GM, HC etc...comes out in public and says something about an active player.....it is deemed not credible because “would you ever think Allen (or anyone else) would even throw (fill in the blank) under the bus”?

But when NFL GM’s, coaches, scouts and players say something that is a blind quote, so they can talk freely....it is deemed not credible because they are “unnamed”.


I sense a lame pattern here. Sports journalists are not credible because it’s only their opinion....NFL players, coaches etc....when they are quoted, in public are not credible because they would never throw anyone under the bus....and when NFL players, GM’s, coaches, etc....are blind quoted (so they could talk freely) are not credible because they are “unnamed"

Jesus. This a ‘tails I win, head’s you lose’ nonsense.


Sukie says something dumb that Josh Allen directly refutes, in every way.....and he simply dismisses it with the lame idea that "would you ever think Allen would even throw a turnstile like Bobby Hart under the bus?”

Not throwing someone under the bus and saying what Allen did about Singletary are on two different planets.

You just can't admit that your flippant comment is wrong, how typical.

All you need to do is show a quoted player speaking freely about a team mate they think sucks. Otherwise the “he is a hard worker, a joy in the locker room” platitude is useless.

Josh Allen loves guys that make him look like a better runner… (an un named source )

[TheConsigliere]

Cook seems like a wasted pick. Why not draft BPA elsewhere and get an actual bruiser RB later in the draft? I was disappointed we didn't go IOL early and figured it was a vote of confidence in Cody Ford. Guess that didn't work out.

Besides injuries, I feel like poor OL performance is our biggest risk to a deep run/SB this year.

Some of The Family members have been saying that since February.

[Ingtar33]

Cook seems like a wasted pick. Why not draft BPA elsewhere and get an actual bruiser RB later in the draft? I was disappointed we didn't go IOL early and figured it was a vote of confidence in Cody Ford. Guess that didn't work out.

Besides injuries, I feel like poor OL performance is our biggest risk to a deep run/SB this year.

no, our RB position as a whole was so poor we needed an upgrade. I don't know why they just drafted another moss/Singletary clone, i was upset with the Cook pick as well, because a 2nd round pick to NOT upgrade our RB position was way too much for him.

the biggest problem we had was we could only reliably gain 1 yard with a JA run. I wanted a back to prevent us from running JA in short yardage. Now, I can't blame them for not drafting Ball or Walker III, I like what we did with our first round pick, and both were off the board before our no.2 came up, but it felt like a panic pick to take cook.

Now I could be wrong, Cook might round into an all pro like his brother in a year or three, but our window is now; and we needed a true No.1 back now, not in 3 years. The bills should have investigated prying a true feature back out of the hands of someone else and used that 2nd rounder to do it. instead they drafted (presumably) for the future when we needed help today.

[notacon]

All you need to do is show a quoted player speaking freely about a team mate they think sucks. Otherwise the “he is a hard worker, a joy in the locker room” platitude is useless.

Josh Allen loves guys that make him look like a better runner… (an un named source )

Jesus. Of course a fellow player is not going to "speaking freely about a team mate they think sucks.”. DUH???? If they DO think a feloe payer “sucks” THEY KEEP MOUTH SHUT!!!!

That does not mean, in ANY way, shape or form, that when they speak freely, and on the record, extolling team mate’s contributions is any less credible.

Again, you are trying this lame ’tails I win, heads you lose’ silliness.

The FACT is that Josh Allen made your opinion look foolish.

And when you question the credibly of NFL GM’s, coaches, players and scouts extremely knowledgeable observations and opinions because they do so “unnamed” (which any idiot knows WHY that makes their comments more valuable and honest) you look even more foolish.

[cookie G]

Same thing Cookie, a shrug. I respect your opinion and won't argue it.

I just think it spells rb2.

I'll never question his effort, he works out of piles he runs into on pure effort and motor, but he's still running into those piles. He has no acceleration, no 2nd gear, no lateral ability, and while it might be sufficient, it's just not optimal for an NFL rb1 and you likely know this. I've never said Singletary is bad, he's just not that good to be rb1 on a contender, imho.

Well, it's not a rushing offense. Agree. But it's not impossible to find a guy that can peel off down the side around people or take a hole and blow through it, or reliably gain a yard on third and 1. It affects how teams defense us. Coming out of a pile once in a while for an extra 5 just doesn't make anyone worry, and they basically duplicated it with Moss, who is supposed to be a contact rusher while Singletary does it better, smaller, anyway.

I feel the RB room needs an upgrade so a Singletary can fill a critical role, but I don't feel Singletary can be the main role.

I'll agree to disagree, old son.

I shrug again. let me put it this way:

for the large majority of the drought, the Bills spent a good deal of assets looking for the franchise back. In most cases, they already had one.

-In 2001 they drafted Travis Henry in round 2. He was good. He made the Pro Bowl in 2002. But he wasn't good enough.

-So in 2003 they drafted MacGahee in round 1. He was good, and had a 1000 yard year or two. But he didn't want to be hear, except to go to Dave and Busters.

-So they drafted Marshawn Lynch in the first round in 2007. Again, he was good. Made the Pro Bowl in his 2nd year. But he wasn't good enough. He ended up having a fringe HOF career with the Seahawks.

-So a few years later, they used the 8th pick in the draft on CJ Spiller. after finding his way, he had over 1200 yards in his 3rd year with a 6 ypc average.

for the latter half of this period, they had Fred Jackson, who has ran, caught and blocked his way onto an eventual place on the BIlls WOF.

After that, they had Shady McCoy, who made the PB 3 consecutive years.

In enough of those years, the BIlls were toward the top of the NFL in rushing.


But the common denominator was...no playoffs and an offense that repeatedly finished in the bottom half of the league in yards and points.

Finally, someone figured it out that a passing game was a necessary element to an NFL team.

The past 3 years, the BIlls have been top 5, (or top 3) in both points and yards.

So if SIngletary isn't the franchise back people pine for...Im not going to lose sleep. I'll take the way they are built right now. If he can't break off the 40 yard run, we have receivers for those gains. Maybe Cook will come around. But his lifetime ypc average is 4.7, which rivals any of those I mentioned above.

I'm not as worried about what they don't have, I'll concentrate on what we have.

[cookie G]

no, our RB position as a whole was so poor we needed an upgrade. I don't know why they just drafted another moss/Singletary clone, i was upset with the Cook pick as well, because a 2nd round pick to NOT upgrade our RB position was way too much for him.

the biggest problem we had was we could only reliably gain 1 yard with a JA run. I wanted a back to prevent us from running JA in short yardage. Now, I can't blame them for not drafting Ball or Walker III, I like what we did with our first round pick, and both were off the board before our no.2 came up, but it felt like a panic pick to take cook.

Now I could be wrong, Cook might round into an all pro like his brother in a year or three, but our window is now; and we needed a true No.1 back now, not in 3 years. The bills should have investigated prying a true feature back out of the hands of someone else and used that 2nd rounder to do it. instead they drafted (presumably) for the future when we needed help today.

idk...if its the short yardage, run it up the middle on 3rd and 1 back, I don't think they are built that way. Morse and Bates, both of whom I like...aren't road graders. Im not expecting them to open a huge hole on a 3rd and 1. so in short yardage situations, you just have to come up with another plan.

as far as the true franchise back, eh...I said enough in my previous post

[sukie]

Jesus. Of course a fellow player is not going to "speaking freely about a team mate they think sucks.”. DUH???? If they DO think a feloe payer “sucks” THEY KEEP MOUTH SHUT!!!!

That does not mean, in ANY way, shape or form, that when they speak freely, and on the record, extolling team mate’s contributions is any less credible.

Again, you are trying this lame ’tails I win, heads you lose’ silliness.

The FACT is that Josh Allen made your opinion look foolish.

And when you question the credibly of NFL GM’s, coaches, players and scouts extremely knowledgeable observations and opinions because they do so “unnamed” (which any idiot knows WHY that makes their comments more valuable and honest) you look even more foolish.

Josh Allen gave platitudes and never once mentioned his running ability. Didn’t mention fighting for extra yards, great vision cutting back didn’t even mention pass catching ability. But if your a kid in college…

McDermotts not happy that his running backs suck week in week out above Josh’s nothing burger compliment.


Singles won’t get a payday. Moss will be gone. Rookie contracts will rule the day. How else do you pay Edmunds?

[notacon]

Josh Allen gave platitudes and never once mentioned his running ability. Didn’t mention fighting for extra yards, great vision cutting back didn’t even mention pass catching ability. But if your a kid in college…

McDermotts not happy that his running backs suck week in week out above Josh’s nothing burger compliment.


Singles won’t get a payday. Moss will be gone. Rookie contracts will rule the day. How else do you pay Edmunds?

So, now you are dishonestly trying to move the goalposts!!!

Jesus. You are STILL trying to rationalize your dumb comment about Singletary (and childishly morphing his name into a lame insult) and dissing and disrespecting what Josh Allen said. How shameful.

In FACT, Allen DID DIRECTLY ADDRESS what you incorrectly observed that was DIRECTLY OPPOSITE of the nonsense you wrote. And it was your nonsensical baloney that I objected to and what Allen directly refuted.

Here is what you ignorantly observed....

"Singles (not Motor -cuz he really doesn’t motor)...”

And what Josh Allen said....basically saying that you have no idea what you are taking about.....

“I can't rave enough about what [Singletary] is, who he is and what he does for this team,” Allen said. “I urge everybody that's watching football, if you're a young kid, if you're in college, whatever, you turn on Devin Singletary tape and you watch him, how he strains to the ball, whether he's got it or not. … The dude, all he knows is work and that's why his [nickname] is 'Motor.'”

Give up your baloney. You made a dumb observations that is directly refuted by Josh Allen, and you are not honorable or honest enough to admit you are obviously WRONG!!!